What's higher than a perfect 300 ...if 300 is a "perfect" game?

[Chase]

Recently, I had a conversation with a VERY knowledgeable, and great bowler who said that he thought that there should never be a score allowed that is higher than 300 in league or in a tournament. And, after giving it some thought myself... well, you know - it does seem a little unfair.

He closed the conversation asking, "Chase, HOW can anyone beat a 317 score?... and WHY is anything over 300 ever allowed...if 300 is a PERFECT game..(?)

I welcome all comments and thoughts...:)

[Ken Burwell]

I have long agreed with that thought. If a scratch bowler achieves perfection, and a handicap bowler with 10 pins, goes spare then off the sheet, how is that the same?

[barry]

Ken, it's the same in pots and on the score sheet when handicap is involved but under USBC achievements, perfection is perfection. One other thing, people don't realize how many times a 180 to 190 bowler actually bowls over his/her avg compared to how many times a 220 bowler rolls over his avg. USBC did a study on it and the lower bowler does it more often.

[Isom]

I agree with Ken, on our Sunday night league, we have an all night doubles. This past Sunday, a guy shot 290 scratch his first game. But he also has 15 pins handicap. So right out of the gate he now has 305. At that point I realized that I had wasted the money I spent in the all night doubles.

It's challenge enough in itself to think that I have to shoot 300 to possibly win, but at least that's an attainable score. When 305 is sitting on top for the night it almost makes me want to ask for my money back in the doubles pot. I did ask the person that runs the pot (not mentioning any names) to please cap it this year at 300 but she said that she didn't think the handicap bowlers would like that idea.

So is it then fair, for the scratch bowlers to waste their money when scores are shot that is beyond their reach? I understand her wanting to keep bowlers coming back to enter her pot, but at the same time I, as a participant, want an equal chance to win money.

[Wayne Gibson]

Have had this conversation many times. On one hand you have the fact that the max anyone can shoot scratch is 300 and that should be the max along with 900 set being the max. On the otherhand it is a lot harder for a 180 bowler to shoot 300 than an 220+ bowler. If both shoot 300 scratch then maybe the capper should get the nod. Now my opinion on this is no one should be able to have more than 300 or 900 set.

[Don Hemanes (Rhinoman)]

Oh man!!! As if bowling 300 wasn't tough enough. Too see that a score that is absolutely unattainable even after bowling a "perfect" game takes away all incentives and kills the motivation. Not sure if there is a solution. Not even sure if it's fair to handicap bowlers. However, if individual tournament or leagues limit the high scores to 300 regardless of handicap, then it simply becomes part of the rules for that league or event and we all would have to follow the rules. Right?

[Marilyn SMoody Lampley]

Chase, first of all Isom did have a choice in the matter and he chose to enter into the handicap all night doubles. If I had to speculate his reason for doing so, the conclusion I came to was that he thinks the odds are in his favor to win. When you speak of equal chances in bowling in my opinion you’re speaking of the same level of skill and ability. Clearly that is not the case on Sunday night for if it was it would be a scratch league. And Ken is right it’s not the same nor does it have the same benefits. You don’t receive a ring for throwing a handicap 300 or any other award that comes with throwing a scratch 300. One of the meanings for handicap is disadvantage and I would venture to think thats the reason for Sunday Night being a handicap league so that everyone has a chance to win. There again people choose to bowl in the league of their choice and he chose to bowl in a handicap league.

[Isom]

Marilyn, you are absolutely wrong in the conclusion that you have come to. I enter the pot on Sunday because it's just about the only pot to get in on that night. Please believe if there was an alternative pot to enter that paid well I would quickly jump ship and get in it and get out of the all night doubles. Don't get me wrong, it's a great pot, but it just doesn't favor a scratch bowler.

Not only do I NOT have the advantage in that pot, I'm at a severe DISADVANTAGE. There is ALWAYS someone that shoots a 260 something or 270 something that ends up being, with cap, a 280 something or 290 something game. So for me to beat them out I have to just about bowl 300.

Even though I know my chances of bowling 300 are very slim I still enter because at least I have a chance even if it's a slim one. We are bowlers and by nature we are gamblers, so I take that chance. But when people start shooting mystical, magical, non-existant scores over 300, I no longer have a chance anymore since no matter what I bowl I can't beat it or even tie it.

I bowl in handicap leagues Marilyn because take a look around you, do you see any scratch leagues with more than 5 or 10 teams in them? If you do, please tell me, I would GLADLY bowl in them.

Yes you are correct, that I did choose to get in handicap all night doubles. But I also expect, when I pay my money, that the rules of the game don't change JUST BECAUSE it's a handicap pot. The max score in bowling is still 300 no matter what kind of league or pot it is.

Handicap started as a way to equal the playing field, not to give the advantage to the lower averaged bowler.

[Martin "BLUFLAME" Seay]

Isom upon giving this some more thought. I am in the agreement that you should not have a score that is higher than the "perfect" score. It does make sense to not under mind the object of the game. Isn't the object of the game to knock down 300 pins after adding in the strike bonuses? So isn't handicap supposed to get you close to that or to it. I agree it shouldn't go over.

[Marilyn SMoody Lampley]

Isom why do you think it is that there are so few scratch league? And won't you try starting a scratch doubles.

[Isom]

Marilyn, there just aren't the bowlers around the atlanta area to start a scratch league. Have you heard of the Real Bowlers tour? Its a scratch tournament that moves around from house to house once a month. Bowlers from all around the south come to bowl and even with that, only 50 bowlers or so show up. You would be hard pressed to get a scratch doubles league that has more than 10 or 15 teams. I havnt tried it, but everytime someone does, it fails.

[Randy Russell]

I agree with Isom regarding scratch leagues. The problem now is the averages are so high that it is tough to put a scratch league together with a decent cap that is fair to all. Then you have the issue of people not wanting to step out of their home house and having to bowl on someone else's "home turf".

I think the biggest thing getting in the way now is traffic. You just can't go very far in Atlanta anymore at 6:30 fast. Any scratch league would have to start after 7:30pm to have a chance at getting players from all over the city. Then you have the issue of getting everyone home in time for work :)

Isom we should try to get something going next year. Maybe down at Midtown or Suburban later one night. That is central enough so that everyone could get to it from anywhere. It's going to be tough to structure it but I know there was talk last year of restarting the old school draft league. Therefore you have people choosing teams and people have a harder time stacking teams.

[barry]

OH well, here I go giving my opinion on an issue. I promised myself that I would not do this but after reading all the entries, it's interesting to hear some of the replies. I guess everyone is making a true statement but the fact remains that bowling is a handicap sport and unless you go pro, there is no where else for scratch bowlers to go. Scratch leagues don't exist, if so, it's a small league. It's truly unfair these days, handicaps higher, shots are easier and all bowlers can buy the same ball. It's not as if scratch bowlers are doing something so special to avg so high are shoot honor scores. We've just practiced and perfected our craft and get punished for doing so. We have to give more than fair handicap pins to the lesser bowler. And face it, the shot is not difficult, there is no difference in where I throw the ball and a 180 or 190 bowler throw the ball, it's just a matter of consistency and repitition. The margin to make a bad shot and still strike is great and on many occasions, a 190 bowler will throw 4 strikes with the scratch bowler and has bonus pins on top of that. This makes it very difficult and frankly, it's driving people away from the sport. In golf, the course is the course, you can't control the wind, the size of the hole or anything. Just because you buy tiger stuff doesn't mean you hit it like tiger but in bowling, the oil pattern is set to score on for all players, balls drilled to help the bowler that needs it and handicap is a bonus. In golf you can make a hole in one, in bowling you can roll a game better than perfect. If you don't allow people to score, they quit an go to the next house. Very few people want to learn how to bowl anymore, they just want it given to them.