WHAT SHOULD BE DONE TO "BAG" THE "SAND"

[barry]

It upset me a little to read that forum about are youths being taught to sandbag. It shouldn't be posted, because if you don't put the idea out there, it probably won't happen. I know some youths in this area and these kids, the Miles boyz, Jake, his sister, and others I know being taught by Jeff Shaw, Jake's parents, Buster Edmonds, Debra Broadie, are all honest, hard working, doing their best to learn and teach. Those kids practice hard on the weekends and these coaches who VOLUNTEER their time work hard with these kids to get good at their sport. Every forum discussion that comes out is about HANDICAP AND SANDBAGGERS. Most times, these cheaters don't win anyway. I just wish we could do away with them and regain the respect of the sport back that these cheaters took away. Isom had a discussion, why get better, Isom we get better cuz that's what you want and I want and a lot of others want. It's the right thing. Is 300....300? Yes it is, and all others above that, who cares, you getz nothing for it. No one cares that you shot 270 with 40 pins and stole a pot that night......CHEATER................. OK, i've vented, so my question is..............WHAT CAN TRULY BE DONE TO LABEL A SANDBAGGING CHEAT and omit them from playing? For years, the things that are done obviously don't work... going back 2-3 years, re-rate, is that the tournament officials don't really apply these rule or is it that this stuff just truly doesn't work. Who has the solution, give it to us please

[morris clegg]

Chase i think it's a great idea this will get more handicap bowlers and scratch bowlers to bowl together and have fun instead of worrying about to handicap bowlers or two scratch bowlers coming in and blowing the scores up , just put out a fair shot not to easy and not hard but challenging at the same time, maybe something like the pba chameleon or national shot but i will leave that up to you...me i finish up with 228 so that will leave me with a 192 avg and lower to shoot with....I will come down and take a shot at it (never scared) lol.

[Chase]

Thanks man. Yes, I am going to put out something challenging, but VERY fair for everyone. Thank you for your support...I look forward to meeting you!

[Martin "BLUFLAME" Seay]

I would be more inclined to bowl a tournament where the scores are low. I say put out a sport shot and keep the handicap if people want to cry. scratch bowlers know how to adapt and get decent scores and handicappers struggle but get pins that are used for what they are supposed to be used for.

[F.O.X]

well said martin. THAT'S THE WAY IT "WAS" ALONG TIME AGO. NOT ANYMORE. PINS AND EASY CONDITIONS IS THE WAY TO GO THESE DAYS.... forget about learning how to bowl or getting a lesson. GO OUT AND "SCORE".......

[jermarace miller]

Realistly speaking, nothing can be done. 100% of 300, 90% of 200, or whatever it maybe it cannot be stopped. Yes the re-rate rule is in effect and can slow down progress yet it will not stop it. There will always be sandbaggers. I might be called a hypocrite for posting this yet I had to give my opinion on this topic. Every sport has it and bowling is harder to get rid of. Even though its tough to deal with and we want to complain about it 24/7 we should deal with it and bowl out game. Now barry I know you will respond to this post but I do not how you will take this. I do not mean no harm nor do I want to offend anyone. All I wanted to do is to answer your question as honestly as I could.

[Randall Harville]

I hear a lot of debate about sandbaggers but, what is a sandbagger and if you are in this category, how well do you sandbag? Back in the day (70-80s), sandbagging was an art. A person would bowl in a hard scoring center in a non-competitive league and would average lower than his or her potential. Then, they would hit the tournament circuit and carefully pick and choose where they would use their sandbagging abilities to the fullest. A real sandbagger would win more than they would lose and avoid tournaments that had strict re-rate policies like the Hoinke, Keglers Bowling Club (KBC), the Peterson, etc. Sandbagging has been around forever but, until you get your average to a scratch level (220+), you will run across sandbaggers at every level. Don't qoute me but, the average for female league bowlers is 150-160 and males average 170-180 so, that's a long way from a scratch score of 220. So, with the majority of bowlers in the handicap category, there will always be a debate about sandbaggers. It's your choice. You can bowl in handicap tournaments where you have more tournaments to choose from or you can just bowl all scratch tournaments where you never find enough tournaments and the entry fees will always be high and prize funds will always be low because, when you say the word "scratch", that scares a lot of bowlers. Back in the day, the same so called "named" sandbaggers won a lot but, I don't consistantly see the same names winning handicap tournaments now. Stay in the easy scoring houses and avoid the competitive leagues and be a sandbagger but, it's not worth it. Bowl to the best of your ability and if the bowling Gods shine on you in a tournament one day, congratulations and then, on to the next tournament. Also, if you have an issue with sandbaggers in your league sessions, think about having your league go to a position round every week rule. Then, you nor your team cannot sandbag during the season because, to be competitive, you will have to "bring it" every week. Just some thoughts and observations that I have made of the last 42 years of bowling.

[barry]

WOW............... I see my post is still kicking months later. I see in the end, there is nothing we can do about it and it has put a black eye on the sport I once loved. I'm really really contemplating stepping away from the game because it's just not fun anymore. These league patterns are just getting ridiculous. I mean when I shoot under 690 I feel like crap. Even 800's are falling out the sky now. I heard a manager of a center say he is glad that the scores are high and he is going to tweek it even more because he wants a 900 shot in his center. That's not bowling. I'm looking for the golf course with the funnel greens so my ball will just go to the hole everytime.

[jermarace miller]

Being for real and not talking out my butt. Leaving the game because of this is not going to solve anything. They arent going to stop just because you left. That gives them more reason to stay in the game; one less person to beat. Now this is you and I cannot say nothing to change your mind but if you truly hate this and you truly want this to stop then dont leave. Running away is not going to stop anything (though I am not saying you are truly running away).

[barry]

I hear you man, but i've been bowling for probably as long or longer than you've been living. I watched the game change and head downward. Its just not fun anymore to bowl on all of these wide open house shots, give away tons of handicap and watch people throw the ball in the same area that I do with bonus in their pockets. You have to shoot 850 these days to win tournaments. Well, 800 is still an honor but it's happening more and more cuz the shots are just to easy. But 850 is almost perfect and well everyone on this website still is considered amateur when I last checked.

[jermarace miller]

So since the shots are easy, people are shooting more 800's now, and people are throwing the same line the best option is to quit? Yes you have been bowling longer than I have been living but not too offend you or anyone buy there are plenty of people that is around your age that stills bowl knowing these things are going on. I dont know what else to say but its your choice but please know just because you leave the sport of bowling none of this that is happening is going to stop.

[barry]

Gotcha, Jerm, everything you say is true. It's my option. I'm burnt out. Not that i'm Black Jr shooting honor scores everyday, i get my 4 or 5 a year and i'm done. It's just league bowling has frustrated alot of people, and it's the bowling proprietors own fault. They have taken the challenge out of bowling. It's like playing that video game that you know you're good at and you just play it to outscore yourself everytime. A fellow bowler and member on this page was talking the other day and he said it best, he said, we're not adjusting to bowl anymore, just adjusting to carry.

[jermarace miller]

Lets llok at this "problem" from the bowling operator point of view. i.e. In one given day you get around 500 people. 100 are walk ins, 200 are casual bowlers, and the last 200 are your sport bowlers. Now 95% of the time you will get the sport bowlers in at any time since they need a place to shoot. Now your wild cards the 300 casual and walk-ins are your money makers. The reason is that they are the ones who usually use the whole bowling alley (buying beer, bowling 5-6 games or more, playing the games) they are your second biggest money maker; the first being leagues.

So to cater to the casual bowlers they have to lay down a shot that will keep their scores higher and will not put to much stress on them. For us that sucks since it nothing but childs play when we get on the lanes so most of us do not even try when we practice since theres nothing to practice for. Yet we are quick to place blame on others when some do not see the big picture.

To solve the problem bowlers need to talk to the bowling operators to set up nights where they lay down sport shots or some harder shot. There are many other ways to beat this.