WHAT SHOULD BE DONE TO "BAG" THE "SAND"

It upset me a little to read that forum about are youths being taught to sandbag. It shouldn't be posted, because if you don't put the idea out there, it probably won't happen. I know some youths in this area and these kids, the Miles boyz, Jake, his sister, and others I know being taught by Jeff Shaw, Jake's parents, Buster Edmonds, Debra Broadie, are all honest, hard working, doing their best to learn and teach. Those kids practice hard on the weekends and these coaches who VOLUNTEER their time work hard with these kids to get good at their sport. Every forum discussion that comes out is about HANDICAP AND SANDBAGGERS. Most times, these cheaters don't win anyway. I just wish we could do away with them and regain the respect of the sport back that these cheaters took away. Isom had a discussion, why get better, Isom we get better cuz that's what you want and I want and a lot of others want. It's the right thing. Is 300....300? Yes it is, and all others above that, who cares, you getz nothing for it. No one cares that you shot 270 with 40 pins and stole a pot that night......CHEATER................. OK, i've vented, so my question is..............WHAT CAN TRULY BE DONE TO LABEL A SANDBAGGING CHEAT and omit them from playing? For years, the things that are done obviously don't work... going back 2-3 years, re-rate, is that the tournament officials don't really apply these rule or is it that this stuff just truly doesn't work. Who has the solution, give it to us please

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Permalink Reply by barry on March 25, 2009 at 11:10am: That's why I love USBC Nat'ls. Divisions, no cap, get in where you fit in. Just can't do it locally because not enough participation to make a tourney worthy. Yo Flame, i get what you're saying. Hell, I know folks that bowl in Lafayette, La at a house with 10 ft gutters, and the carry is horrible. So they bowl there best and avg below avg because of the house. That's not bagging. But it's crazy to watch people bowl bad on purpose on cake and ice cream to "CHEAT". Oh well Chase, Flame, Fox, it is what it is.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Martin "BLUFLAME" Seay on March 25, 2009 at 11:39am: Lmao. Barry, Cake and Ice cream.That's right it is what it is; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by F.O.X on March 26, 2009 at 1:09am: sad but true, it is what it is..........; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Damien Laird on March 27, 2009 at 3:20pm: There is an idea I had a couple years back about this subject. Why not have these tournaments set the handicap to the relative difficulty of the oil pattern. This is a technique used on golf courses all the time. They take the difficulty of the course based on the " good golfer" and set the par for the course. So, in relation to bowling, if a typical house shot is being used, then a 90% of 210 or 220 is used. But if a more difficult shot is used then the 90% of 200 is used. That way, if guys like Chase get re-rated, at least that "sand bagger" (averaging 170) will only get 28 pins instead of 40 or 50. And why not take it a step further, if the shot is really difficult, take the handicap down to 90% of 190 and so on.... just a thought!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Sean "2SMOOTH" on April 15, 2009 at 12:13am: It's easier said then done my friend. CAP THE DAMN HANDICAP!!!Sadly, in most leaugues it is a argument you will never win. If you know anyone who can bowl higher than 300 please show them to me. why should we allow hadicap to sore over the most you can possibly bowl in one game. It's like going to a restaurant and ordering a thick juicy steak, But you weigh 250lbs. Just because your a little on the heavy side doesn't mean they will give you another steak or two. You might get some more hot bread and a refill on your softdrink but no steak. Hanicap is only to meant to help even the playing field for those of lesser skill. This should not be used as "secret weapon" In the end you only cheat yourself of your true potential because your to lazy or unwilling to put in the time to work on your game.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by randy hicks on April 17, 2009 at 1:33am: well put Sean; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Kenneth Tibbitts on April 21, 2009 at 1:34pm: I can not agree more about the sandbaggers. There is very little that can be down about them with the way the averages/hdcps are done. I have attempted to change that on my website. Instead of using running averages compiled from all weeks bowled. We use the average from the 3 games bowled that week. Bowl bad and have a lower average with a higher handicap and bowl higher games to have a lower handicap. I believe that this will prevent sandbaggers from controlling the site.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by johnnie jackson on April 22, 2009 at 1:40am: I'm still trying to figure out why everyone makes this topic as diffulcult as rocket science. To make it fair for every bowler of every skill level make the handicap system 100% of 300. Then sandbagging becomes irrelevent, lane conditions become irrelevent and so on. The only problem with this thought is most sandbaggers and handicap bowlers do not want to give pins to a scratch bowler. They realize the current system in place favors the cheaters and lesser skilled bowlers. Why educate yourself about the sport, practice (yeah practice), when those so called good bowlers and tournament coordinaters give me the advantage I need. 3% scratch bowler's 97% handicap bowlers you do the math.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Martin "BLUFLAME" Seay on April 22, 2009 at 2:20am: Johnnie thing is even with that system, advantage goes to the lower avg bowler. 100% of 300 is just a beat your avg thing. Who is going to beat there avg more higher avg or lower avg bowler. You have a 235 bowler vs a 160 bowler who sandbags and can shoot 600 series. That's 120 pins over avg. So 235 bowler has to shoot 825(avg 275). The way I see it is to simply apply a cap to handicap. Maybe like 40 pins. Applying a cap is the only way to control sandbagging, keyword being control, you will never stop it. Where there is money someone will be scheming.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by F.O.X on April 23, 2009 at 12:22pm: gentlemen, "sandbagging" probably has been around since the very beginning of bowling.

yet, the problem here doesn't not lie with the "sandbaggers" per-se'. the problem, to me at least, lies with the insane handicapp percentages.

90% of 220? 90% of 230?! what?!!!! you're giving some scratch bowlers pins?! now, to add insult to injury. you've got some guy getting 30-40 maybe 50 pins+ bowling on a lane condition that just "allows" the ball to be tossed any way down the lane and it still strikes?!

his level of skill or knowledge of the game isn't even being tested at all because he knows it's "coming back left"? c,mon?!!!!!! the insane percentages have to come down and the shots have to be made more demanding, period.

hell, with all these hi tech balls, the balls need more oil to get the required action out of them.

yet, in the GRANDE scheme of things, this just boils down to $$$$ and not pissing people off.

you tighten up the shots, LET THE CRYING BEGIN.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by morris clegg on April 23, 2009 at 8:47am: I been reading the discussion on the sandbaggin, i think the best way to run a fair doubles tournament so everyone can be happy is to put a team cap of (240 )that's (40) pins a game. women get a max of (50pins> when bowling with a scractch bowler, i no you handicap bowlers saying that's not enough ,but here the catch> (2) 200 bowlers can't bowl together so either you bowl with the cap or find a scractch bowler that way you both need each other....just a thought because we ran one here and it turn out great..

STOPPING THE SAND; ▶ Reply to This