WHAT SHOULD BE DONE TO "BAG" THE "SAND"

[barry]

It upset me a little to read that forum about are youths being taught to sandbag. It shouldn't be posted, because if you don't put the idea out there, it probably won't happen. I know some youths in this area and these kids, the Miles boyz, Jake, his sister, and others I know being taught by Jeff Shaw, Jake's parents, Buster Edmonds, Debra Broadie, are all honest, hard working, doing their best to learn and teach. Those kids practice hard on the weekends and these coaches who VOLUNTEER their time work hard with these kids to get good at their sport. Every forum discussion that comes out is about HANDICAP AND SANDBAGGERS. Most times, these cheaters don't win anyway. I just wish we could do away with them and regain the respect of the sport back that these cheaters took away. Isom had a discussion, why get better, Isom we get better cuz that's what you want and I want and a lot of others want. It's the right thing. Is 300....300? Yes it is, and all others above that, who cares, you getz nothing for it. No one cares that you shot 270 with 40 pins and stole a pot that night......CHEATER................. OK, i've vented, so my question is..............WHAT CAN TRULY BE DONE TO LABEL A SANDBAGGING CHEAT and omit them from playing? For years, the things that are done obviously don't work... going back 2-3 years, re-rate, is that the tournament officials don't really apply these rule or is it that this stuff just truly doesn't work. Who has the solution, give it to us please

[Woodsy1219]

Barry talking about a previous discussion wrote - "It shouldn't be posted, because if you don't put the idea out there, it probably won't happen." Then he went on to provide names of the bowlers and their parents - Are you that stupid? I know Jake and his parents, they are true to the art and game of bowling. My sons and I are true to bowling also. The kids I coach are true to bowling but I would never, NEVER, place them in a "perfect" category. We are human and are prone to making mistakes. I don't put no bowler above or beyond sandbagging, they do what they do. We are trained to teach them the art of bowling - not the art of sandbagging. I don't think they (USBC) will ever get rid of hdcp - it is my opinion that more scratch tournaments should be held to discourage "sandbagging" by our youth bowlers. My question to you Barry, why would you want "to label a sandbagging cheat" and place them on blast? The one person you don't think is a "sandbagging cheat" may be one and then what are you going to do? Change your opinion to fit the situation. You need to be very careful and look before you leap.

[barry]

Maybe you didn't understand, i stated the names of the bowlers and the coaches because I know they are true to the game and they are not teaching the kids to sandbag, they are teaching the kids how to bowl. I didn't call them perfect either, no one is. Everyone has an opinion, and my opinion is that "sandbagging" is a form of cheating, if you don't like it, tough.

[Woodsy1219]

I understand fully - you put names on blast because you think you know these people well enough to do that. WOW!!! I agree with you that "sandbagging" is a form of cheating and I agree with Martin that it is a bowler's reality. I also agree that you are entitled to your opinion but I don't agree with you about labeling someone a sandbagger. You don't know if they are truly sandbagging - you are only assuming.

[Martin "BLUFLAME" Seay]

Dude real talk sandbagging is part of the game. Sad to say it. But like I stated earlier no one has to tell people about sandbagging, they understand what is being done to win and adapt. When I first started bowling i had a 140 avg. and bowled a 600 twice in a tournament and got rerated to a 173. I wasn't sandbagging but that was my previous years avg. playing by the rules right? If tournaments follow their own rules we wouldn't have this problem.

[Wayne Gibson]

Martin these days it seems very rare someone getting rerated. One reason is the tournament directors are to scared to do so. Another reason is because most tourneys (atleast in the metro Atl) are re-entry types and they can toss some sets away.

[Martin "BLUFLAME" Seay]

Wayne you are right. They are scared to lose entries. The thing is if everyone does it then it will be normal. Money talks and you know what walks. Thats what bowling is all about.

[barry]

Martin, it's one thing to start out with a low avg and improve and win a tourney or money in a pot while you are improving your game. It's another to improve your game but hold back or miss on purpose to keep your avg down just to get handicap. Many bowlers start out with a low avg but as you practice and get better, of course your scores go up and you will have that year where you avg 150 in the book but start bowling 180's and reaping the benefits. But the next year don't hold back and try and keep tht 150

[Martin "BLUFLAME" Seay]

Exactly Barry, thats why these tournaments have to enforce the rule. a person is averaging 150 for 5 years but has honor scores at tournaments. It is crazy.

[Wayne Gibson]

Sandbagging is very hard to prove. Can't go by someones form. They could have the smoothest form ever but can't play but one line. They may wheel in 16 balls to a tourney but not know what they do or 15 are hook monsters and 1 spare ball. There are some clues as to who may be bagging it. Once at the Turtle tournament a guy in front of me gets in $300 worth of brackets. $150 was handicap and $150 was scratch. His average was 150 and this was the house he bowled in. Now he may be just a big gambler. He may be new and his average has increased so taking what he can while he can. Made sure I watched him some. He was no bagger that I could tell. As long as I can remember there have always been baggers. First tossed a ball in league play in 1971, so been around this thing a while. Best legal way to deal with sandbaggers is using the rerating system and the 10 pin rule needs to be inforced also.

[Woodsy1219]

I agree!!!

[Akil Razzak]

My opinion on the Sand bagging situation is it's up to bowlers and tournament directors to curtail sandbagging. I have a few friends that run tournaments that keep most of the sand out. Those are the tournaments I support and word of mouth is the easiest way to tell a tournament director of a suspected sandbagger and if they don't want to hear you then you take your money elsewhere.

[Chase]

I am starting to believe that there isn't much that can really be done about sandbagging.

I recently signed up for the USBC Ga State Tournament, and they decided to re-rate my bowling average to 216 from 197. I got upset...but I guess they were just trying to enforce all of the USBC rules as far as cash winnings and new averages, etc. The crazy thing is, I am NOT a 216 bowler, I was just on a good run for about 3 months…

…anyway….

Well, when I bowled at the tournament, there were guys all around me shooting 730 - 750+ scratch...and when I went to go and ask for their averages... they were telling me their averages were 170 and 175. And I'm like wtf? Are you serious? So, hey - maybe they were just having a great day... but the way they were bowling; rolling the ball, technique, consistent, etc.... no way!!!! I even asked one guy, “is that 170 average in a Sports League or something??” .. I mean, the only way that guy’s average was 170, is if his league was using the Viper Pattern as the League shot!!!

Anyway – just thought I’d pass this on….