Is this fair?.. or is it just the way it is with league bowling?

[Chase]

If you bowled in a league with a “competitive shot” (not the THS), but a team decided to “pre-bowl” at the center…and they went in and pre-bowled on the “THS” house shot instead of the ACTUAL shot that is used for the league… do you think this is fair?

I ask because this just happened with the league at Forest Park, and to me, I honestly think this type of situation works against the integrity of the league.

Note: EVERY person on that team shot WELL above their normal averages…

…I ain’t a hater, but this really seems a little unfair (actually a lot to me)... the idea of a team getting to bowl on easy conditions …especially for the team that had to come in during actual league and bowl on the LEAGUE CONDITION...and “try” to keep up anywhere close to the “pre-bowled” scores…


What’s YOUR opinion…?

[Carla Whitehead]

OMG, you know I knew this would come up and why did I know someone would have a problem with it. Is it fair? It's life and it happen. So the team happen to bowl in some opinion better than normal, who has the right to say so and is that fair. But if a team ask to pre and/or post bowl they have to bowl on the shot that is in the house at the time the house has allotted for them to bowl. The house does not have to pull their machines out and set up a particular shot to accommodate that team, not only is it costly to the center to do so (because they would have to pull a staff member from behind the lanes and do so, it is not easy for them to do and not cost effective for them to do and this came from center manager). We have to bowl on what is given. To make sure I was correct in stating this I emailed Joe Spain at USBC and below is his response. They could have also prebowled and bowl horrible would the fair question have come up then. The only way to prevent this from happening is for a league to not allow pre or post bowling and then how FAIR would that be. Now he was also responding to my question of "is the house required to have one standard league shot?"

Carla,



As long as the center complies with USBC specifications and places a “legal” shot on the lanes, they can put whatever shot they desire. The drawback to putting down a difficult shot is that bowlers get upset and may not return. This is a decision the center must make when choosing which condition they put down.



As for the pre-bowling team, it is impossible to try and match up the conditions from one day to the next, even if it was tried.



Again, as long as the center uses a legal condition as defined by USBC standards, it is okay.

[Tristina Allen]

This is interesting because I never thought my team would be in the center of this discussion. I understand concerns, sorry I am not as seasoned of a bowler as Chase or Isom however I understand their opininons. Nor do I cheat a system, I was out to raise money for a HSBC "Morris Brown" and I did just that. However we told the league officers we wanted to pre-bowl in the time frame allocated. We also had a league officer present, and other league members that watched us bowl. Also, the team we were playing against, the captain was there as well and watched us bowl. If there was a problem it should have been discussed then or protested. I also found out there is no USBC rule that states we have to bowl on the same shot. The discussion of fairness only was was mention after the opposing team bowled. That just does not seem fair to me!! Also, our scores where given to the other team, I know for a fact this was not suppose to happen. (Once again the officers were trying to accomadate all parties) Not like he needed them because he was there when I bowled. Notice I said again he was there when my team bowled. The other team was also notifiied we were going to pre-bowl, thats in the rules. I really like this game, however I find it very discouraging when folks scream unfair when it only benefits them. I dont think this would have even been brought to your attention had that other team won. Chase I didnt see you post Jolly's score, where he shot a 200+ game, then returned with a 120+ game then back to a 200 game. The shot was not as easy as you seem to think. Sorry but I am still a newbie so all shots are a little challenging for me.. :-) GIP was also struggling, maybe all should check out all the scores, and not just By'on's because he had a good game. With all that said and trust me there are no hard feelings because I know my team, did everything by the book, and the officers did as well. My integrity is important to me. As Isom so noted, nothing can be done now about it now however, we clearly see this is something we should discuss either now or in next years meeting. So I personally will make sure to bring it up..

[Isom]

Tristina, please dont think I was trying to take a shot at you or your team. Not at all. I never believed that your team pre-bowled on purpose to get to bowl on an easier shot. How would your team even know if the shot would be easier that day or not? It could have just as well been your luck that it was even more difficult that day than Friday's shot.

Often, during the course of a league year, situations come up that we realize our rules for the league dont really cover that particular situation. This just happens to be one of those situations. There may not be a USBC rule against pre bowling on a different shot than what the league normally bowls on, but in an attempt to make everything fair, maybe we should try to implement that rule next year. As stated by a few others earlier, it may be impractical to do so but we won't know until we ask the owner.

The league has a challenging condition for a reason and that's to make shot making important. Yes, it was only one week of pre bowling and the team had to pre bowl for a good reason. But rules, like laws are in place not for honest people, but for DISHONEST people. You know it's just a matter of time, that eventually some team (maybe not this year but in a future year) realizes the loop hole in the rule and pre bowls 4, 5, or 6 weeks out of the year to avoid the challenging condition (there are always people wanting an advantage). It needs to be addressed before this happens. As of now, a team could do that very thing and there is nothing that could be done about it.

[Carla Whitehead]

This is amazing to me, bowling is a sport not a job. It is so amazing that people have taken the fun out of bowling. It's all about the money. Unbelievable. No matter what shot is out there, no matter what ball you choose to use, in the end each individual has to play. If its your day its your day no matter what. There has been times when we all have had the luck of the draw. When we could hit the shot and no one else could or when we thought how in the world could he or she be playing that shot, when so many others are struggling; just that persons day. If it's your time to shine then its your time. Why can't we say good game, good set, good bowling and be happy for that person. Why is it so personal, why is there so much whining. What happen to sportsmanship, it left the game when money became more important than people, how SAD. Why cant we be happy for whoever bowled well and move on. It is sad that we are so divided.

[Chase]

you know, I didn't think this is a matter of "being divided" at all. And in defense of what I have actually said... "Hey, it does not affect me or my team...sheeesh, my team is in very last place :-) lmao...so it would not have mattered anyway." BUT.....in my 3rd year of bowling leagues, etc...I try to pay attention to EVERYTHING... it's just the way "I am" ...and also because I have been asked to sponsor leagues (a new scratch league proposal for next year), and another tournament in the Southeast, and I am also REALLY interested in learning how this all works, keeping thing fair and "right", and what things need to be addressed or solved with competiotion bowling...serious. Actually... I see other issues that make me wonder how and why certain situations are allowed...like how teams manipulate “blind-hi-average” bowlers and substitutions throughout the season to win games… (And from a my point of view…”my opinion”… there are things that seem disconcerting about that too, but it’s still allowed)

Hey… as stated before - everyone and ANYONE can have a great day (that deserves our support and congrats… I congratulate bowlers all year long on the front page of Bowling200.com, and I enjoy it a LOT!) But... that's not what I asked about in the post. I asked, "Is this fair?.. or is it just the way it is with league bowling?

...And from the responses I see (from some)....lol, I guess the answer is:
It's just the way it is with league bowling.

Ps – This post was not to “whine”… and was NEVER to disrespect the team that bowled.. They did a GREAT job...and had a great day. I just hope that this is brought up in a meeting for the league next year…so it can at least be discussed.

[Chase]

One other thing... I tell everyone I know... that the Friday Night League at Forest Park is actually the BEST league in the city...as far as the leagues I know about. It's actually the only league ( i know about) where you have to make good shots to be rewarded most times....and I love that. So, I really want to see the league continue...