Is this fair?.. or is it just the way it is with league bowling?

[Chase]

If you bowled in a league with a “competitive shot” (not the THS), but a team decided to “pre-bowl” at the center…and they went in and pre-bowled on the “THS” house shot instead of the ACTUAL shot that is used for the league… do you think this is fair?

I ask because this just happened with the league at Forest Park, and to me, I honestly think this type of situation works against the integrity of the league.

Note: EVERY person on that team shot WELL above their normal averages…

…I ain’t a hater, but this really seems a little unfair (actually a lot to me)... the idea of a team getting to bowl on easy conditions …especially for the team that had to come in during actual league and bowl on the LEAGUE CONDITION...and “try” to keep up anywhere close to the “pre-bowled” scores…


What’s YOUR opinion…?

[B'yon P. Hairston]

First of all it wasn't a house shot if the Monday morning league just got done bowling.
Secondly the league has rules & regulations and we followed them to the tee.
So what is the problem, Anybody could have a good day bowling, You ought to no that.
Finally, if it would have been your team I would n't have to reply to this blog. Quit Whining!!!!!

[Chase]

Well.. actually man, I am not complaining…I am asking “is it fair?”

My team didn’t bowl you (thank God) …someone else had to beat those scores….

I am not complaining…I am asking “is it fair?”

And of course, anyone can have a great day…. You bowled great man…

Season High Scores:

Handicap Game
301 B'YON HAIRSTON

Handicap Series
775 B'YON HAIRSTON

Last week's highest scores:

Scratch Game
B'YON HAIRSTON
279

Scratch Series
B'YON HAIRSTON 709

Handicap Game
B'YON HAIRSTON 301

Handicap Series
B'YON HAIRSTON 775


But, still… under the circumstances for the type of league it is ( we bowl on a shot that is a harder shot than any other league at Forest Park)…. do you believe it to be FAIR?

Yes, or no?


PS.. why are you getting so upset dude...I am just asking about the integrity of the situation...nothing personal with you at all..

[Barbara A Ross]

Chase, It is not fair if they did not bowl under the same conditions as the opposing team. It also is unfair if the opposing team viewed the bowled scores before completing their games. I always thought that USBC rules stated that the scores were not revealed until the opposing team completed their games. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Chase]

Barbara, no I don't think the other team saw the scores. But, after they did... I was able to revive DJ with a little smelling sauce and a peppermint lifesaver...LOL

[Isom]

Even if it was a broken down shot from MONDAYS league, the pre bowling team had an advantage if Mondays shot was easier to start with than Wed or Friday. On Wed or Fri the shot is still challenging even after it opens up. Ive never bowled on Monday so I cant say from my own experience if Monday is easier or not.

But even if the pre bowling team bowled on a broken down shot from WED or FRI, they STILL would have had an advantage because the fresh shot that the other team bowled is challending until it opens up from some play. So if that team was able to START on the break down shot they were able to put strikes together immediately that may not have come together on a fresh shot.

Now with all that said, if the pre bowling team followed all the rules and there was no rule against pre bowling on a differnt shot then there is nothing that can be said or done about it, they followed the rule and just got away with a loophole. Just make a mental note and next year, bring it up in the meeting and amend the rule so that all pre and post bowling has to be done on the same shot.

[Isom]

And by the way, I kept mentioning Wed AND Fri because I didnt know what night the league in question is on

[Chase]

...exactly..

...just think what would happen if other teams started to do the same thing. I mean, let's be real, the Friday Night Shootout league only has (7) 200+ average bowlers right now...and that's because the shot is REALLY challenging.

[Randall Harville]

Is this fair? What's the big deal. First of all, a team does not pre-bowl 36 weeks. Also, I don't think a team would pre-bowl just to get around a challenging league shot for just one week. Most times if a team pre-bowls on a weekend, there is usually not a THS or demanding league shot. I believe bowling centers passify league bowlers too much. (No bowling on lanes prior to league after oiling the lanes. More oil on one night for one league. Less oil on another night for another league.) Give league bowlers x amount of practice time, practice with your trunk-load of balls and "hit-em". Good luck and high scores. Real bowlers will figure it out. Good conditions (By the way, what a good condition?) or bad,THS or demanding league condition. Whatever! If I win, Congratulations to me. If I lose, Congratulations to you. Onto next week. Show the opposing teams the pre-bowled scores. Those scores are not going to change. If you bowl bad, never blame the lane conditions. Other players all bowled on the same pair and condition. Blame yourself. Poor execution. Bad read. Bad ball choices. If lane conditions were perfect (which is relative), all bowlers would average 260 and shoot 300 and 800 every night. Not going to happen. Someone pre-bowled and bowled well. Congratulations! Life goes on.

[Chase]

Yeah... I don't think the team bowled to get around the "shot" by any means.

..and as far as "What's the big deal?"

Well, I was told we were bowling for money (that's why we pay $25/night...and I guess at the "home-stretch" of payouts, positions of teams and places that a team can finish in... I imagine it could make the difference between many hundreds of dollars, or even a thousand bucks... I guess. So... isn't that kinda a big deal?

I just think the situation should be addressed so that either next year, or in the 2nd half of the season a rule is put in place to attempt to keep things a little balanced...that’s all.

[robert wolfe]

Unfair, but sometimes unavoidable. It would be asking a bit much of the proprietor to dress a pair or two with our harder league shot in order to accommodate one team doing a pre/post bowl. Then, if they had a regular league later that night, they would have to re-do them again. Making both teams pre/post bowl together would be fair, but even harder logistically. I think we need to amend our league rules before this becomes a problem, because we all know that people will take advantage of loopholes. If this is being done to avoid the double shift we have to bowl on November 13th, then it becomes even more unfair. A hard call, with no easy solution.

[Wayne Gibson]

Look at it this way. If a team from another league that has a THS pre or post bowls on a night that has the harder shot out. Is that fair? It works both ways and really is the luck of the draw. There are times when the lanes won't even have any oil on them for the time picked for pre or post bowling. Also even if they did oil the lanes with the harder pattern, there is no guarantee they will be even the same pair. And from what I hear of Forest Park (can't say for sure cause have not bowled on every pair) some pairs play a lot nicer than others. I personally hate pre and post bowling but it is necessary at times. I agree though that try and get it into the rules for next half or year. Check with the house to make sure that they are willing and able to do this first. No need for a rule if it can't be enforced. :)

[Gary Schmit]

Here you have a question of "what is fair" versus "what is the rule". I have participated in Sport Leagues where we had rules requiring that a Sport compliant condition be put down for any games bowled at times other than the scheduled league time. As stated in one of the posts, you can't have a rule like that without the agreement of the bowling center. Luckily we have had very cooperative centers to work with (maybe because we are a USBC HQ league) and they were able to provide the required condition whenever necessary.

You can make the complaint that a team has an unfair advantage bowling on "broken in" condition, but again, I have seen many times over the years where the lanes become more unplayable as they breakdown.

We can all wish that the lanes be dressed AND REACT the same for all competition within the league but that is a utopian dream. Any seasoned bowler knows that same lane pattern may react differently, sometimes slightly and sometimes drastically, lane to lane much less week to week.

In the case present, unless there can be shown evidence of a league rule being broken, the league would have little basis to challenge the scores bowled.

One additional point, there is no USBC rule that requires prior bowled scores to be with held from the opponent until after they have competed a game/series. Such a rule is at the discretion of the league to adopt as they see fit.